Handling iron content of iron supplements

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
5 messages Options
Burke Mamlin Burke Mamlin
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Handling iron content of iron supplements

Ada,

I'm listening to the scrum intro, where you were asking if FERROUS SULFATE 200 mg (with 60 mg ELEMENT IRON) TAB would use the drug ingredients table.

In this example, there is only one active drug (iron), but the amount of effective iron (iron that reaches the patient's blood) happens to be different than the pill's dose.   So, for example, giving a 200 mg supplement of iron only delivers 60 mg of actual iron to the patient. The providers want to know how much effective iron is being delivered with each dose.  While the pill is dosed at 200 mg, the actual iron delivered to the patient is 60 mg.

So, in this example, I would not use the ingredient table; rather, I would use a single drug entry – e.g., something like you have… FERROUS SULFATE 200 mg (60 mg ELEMENTAL IRON) TAB.

Cheers,

-Burke

[hidden email] from OpenMRS Developers' mailing list
Yeung, Ada K. Yeung, Ada K.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Handling iron content of iron supplements

It’s good to know someone is listening to the scrum intro!  J

 

With this example, what should we put for the dosage strength column (200mg or 60mg)?

 

-ada

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Burke Mamlin
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 4:46 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [OPENMRS-DEV] Handling iron content of iron supplements

 

Ada,

 

I'm listening to the scrum intro, where you were asking if FERROUS SULFATE 200 mg (with 60 mg ELEMENT IRON) TAB would use the drug ingredients table.

 

In this example, there is only one active drug (iron), but the amount of effective iron (iron that reaches the patient's blood) happens to be different than the pill's dose.   So, for example, giving a 200 mg supplement of iron only delivers 60 mg of actual iron to the patient. The providers want to know how much effective iron is being delivered with each dose.  While the pill is dosed at 200 mg, the actual iron delivered to the patient is 60 mg.

 

So, in this example, I would not use the ingredient table; rather, I would use a single drug entry – e.g., something like you have… FERROUS SULFATE 200 mg (60 mg ELEMENTAL IRON) TAB.

 

Cheers,

 

-Burke


[hidden email] from OpenMRS Developers' mailing list

Andrew Kanter Andrew Kanter
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Handling iron content of iron supplements

Good work, Burke...glad you are listening since I am never on those calls! the strength should be the listed strength (in this case 200 mg)

Andy
 
--------------------
Andrew S. Kanter, MD MPH

- Director of Health Information Systems/Medical Informatics
Millennium Villages Project, Earth Institute, Columbia University
- Asst. Prof. of Clinical Biomedical Informatics and Clinical Epidemiology
Columbia University

Email: [hidden email]
Mobile: +1 (646) 469-2421
Office: +1 (212) 305-4842
Skype: akanter-ippnw
Yahoo: andy_kanter


From: "Yeung, Ada K." <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [OPENMRS-DEV] Handling iron content of iron supplements

It’s good to know someone is listening to the scrum intro!  J
 
With this example, what should we put for the dosage strength column (200mg or 60mg)?
 
-ada
 
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Burke Mamlin
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 4:46 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [OPENMRS-DEV] Handling iron content of iron supplements
 
Ada,
 
I'm listening to the scrum intro, where you were asking if FERROUS SULFATE 200 mg (with 60 mg ELEMENT IRON) TAB would use the drug ingredients table.
 
In this example, there is only one active drug (iron), but the amount of effective iron (iron that reaches the patient's blood) happens to be different than the pill's dose.   So, for example, giving a 200 mg supplement of iron only delivers 60 mg of actual iron to the patient. The providers want to know how much effective iron is being delivered with each dose.  While the pill is dosed at 200 mg, the actual iron delivered to the patient is 60 mg.
 
So, in this example, I would not use the ingredient table; rather, I would use a single drug entry – e.g., something like you have… FERROUS SULFATE 200 mg (60 mg ELEMENTAL IRON) TAB.
 
Cheers,
 
-Burke

[hidden email] from OpenMRS Developers' mailing list



[hidden email] from OpenMRS Developers' mailing list
Michael Seaton Michael Seaton
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Handling iron content of iron supplements

In reply to this post by Burke Mamlin
Hi Burke,

I'm a little confused by this, but haven't listened to the intro so maybe am out of context.

I would think that if we were to start using the drug_ingredient table (and I hope we do) that _all_ drugs, including those with only one ingredient would use it to represent their ingredient(s).  Wouldn't we want there to be a single source where someone could ask questions like "How many patients are taking Iron supplements?".

Thanks,
Mike


On 04/30/2012 04:46 PM, Burke Mamlin wrote:
Ada,

I'm listening to the scrum intro, where you were asking if FERROUS SULFATE 200 mg (with 60 mg ELEMENT IRON) TAB would use the drug ingredients table.

In this example, there is only one active drug (iron), but the amount of effective iron (iron that reaches the patient's blood) happens to be different than the pill's dose.   So, for example, giving a 200 mg supplement of iron only delivers 60 mg of actual iron to the patient. The providers want to know how much effective iron is being delivered with each dose.  While the pill is dosed at 200 mg, the actual iron delivered to the patient is 60 mg.

So, in this example, I would not use the ingredient table; rather, I would use a single drug entry – e.g., something like you have… FERROUS SULFATE 200 mg (60 mg ELEMENTAL IRON) TAB.

Cheers,

-Burke

[hidden email] from OpenMRS Developers' mailing list

[hidden email] from OpenMRS Developers' mailing list
Burke Mamlin Burke Mamlin
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Handling iron content of iron supplements

I don't want to presume that everyone will fill out their ingredient tables, so was assuming we would consider both drug & ingredient tables when looking for patients taking drugs linked to concept X.  That would allow implementations to use ingredients to the degree that it helps them.

For example, if Implementation A has three forms of iron available, they can use three drugs linked to an IRON SUPPLEMENT concept and can easily find those drugs; they're happy.  If Implementation B needs to be able to report all patients on any drug containing IRON, then they might make an ELEMENTAL IRON concept and enter it as an ingredient for the three iron supplements along with any other combination pills (e.g. multivitamins) that contain elemental iron.  If we assume that we _always_ use the ingredient table, then it means that well be forcing Implementation A to create an ELEMENTAL IRON concept for use as an ingredient even thought they don't need/want it.

If there are widely available, free resources to load these ingredient tables for most/all implementations, then the example is moot and we can just use the ingredient table.  But, given the constantly changing landscape of medications & likely variations from one implementation to another, I didn't want to assume this to be the case.

In the end, this was just an assumption on my part.

Cheers,

-Burke

On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Michael Seaton <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Burke,

I'm a little confused by this, but haven't listened to the intro so maybe am out of context.

I would think that if we were to start using the drug_ingredient table (and I hope we do) that _all_ drugs, including those with only one ingredient would use it to represent their ingredient(s).  Wouldn't we want there to be a single source where someone could ask questions like "How many patients are taking Iron supplements?".

Thanks,
Mike



On 04/30/2012 04:46 PM, Burke Mamlin wrote:
Ada,

I'm listening to the scrum intro, where you were asking if FERROUS SULFATE 200 mg (with 60 mg ELEMENT IRON) TAB would use the drug ingredients table.

In this example, there is only one active drug (iron), but the amount of effective iron (iron that reaches the patient's blood) happens to be different than the pill's dose.   So, for example, giving a 200 mg supplement of iron only delivers 60 mg of actual iron to the patient. The providers want to know how much effective iron is being delivered with each dose.  While the pill is dosed at 200 mg, the actual iron delivered to the patient is 60 mg.

So, in this example, I would not use the ingredient table; rather, I would use a single drug entry – e.g., something like you have… FERROUS SULFATE 200 mg (60 mg ELEMENTAL IRON) TAB.

Cheers,

-Burke

[hidden email] from OpenMRS Developers' mailing list

[hidden email] from OpenMRS Developers' mailing list


[hidden email] from OpenMRS Developers' mailing list