Is there a history of patient attributes kept in OpenMRS

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Joaquín Blaya Joaquín Blaya
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Is there a history of patient attributes kept in OpenMRS

Hi,
I was wondering if there was a history kept of patient attributes changes. I looked at the page https://wiki.openmrs.org/display/docs/Best+Practices+for+Implementations and it mentions that some patient attributes such as civil status can change over time and an implementer could want to keep a record of that, but it doesn't confirm if a record is maintained or not. 

It mentions "Is it better to record civil status as a person attribute with concept answers"  is there anywhere that shows how to do this?  Darius mentioned that the tribe module allowed you to have a coded patient attribute, is that what is done?

Thanks,


Joaquín
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Gerente de Desarrollo, eHealth Systems
Research Fellow, Escuela de Medicina de Harvard
Moderador, GHDOnline.org

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Burke Mamlin Burke Mamlin
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Re: Is there a history of patient attributes kept in OpenMRS

OpenMRS Attributes (like person attributes) are designed to allow implementations to extend tables to meet their needs – i.e., to effectively add an a column to the person table.  Based on this design, an attribute should behave as like any other column on the table (gender, birthdate, etc.).  This means that a history of values or multiple values would not be supported for simple datatypes; rather, you would need a custom datatype.

If you want to keep longitudinal data (a history of values), then I would suggest using observations.  These don't have to be mutually exclusive – i.e., you can, for example, record civil status both as a person attribute and and an observation, where the current civil status is always available as a person attribute and, when you want to see the history, you can search observations.

Cheers,

-Burke

On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Joaquín Blaya <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,
I was wondering if there was a history kept of patient attributes changes. I looked at the page https://wiki.openmrs.org/display/docs/Best+Practices+for+Implementations and it mentions that some patient attributes such as civil status can change over time and an implementer could want to keep a record of that, but it doesn't confirm if a record is maintained or not. 

It mentions "Is it better to record civil status as a person attribute with concept answers"  is there anywhere that shows how to do this?  Darius mentioned that the tribe module allowed you to have a coded patient attribute, is that what is done?

Thanks,


Joaquín
___________________________________________________________________
Gerente de Desarrollo, eHealth Systems
Research Fellow, Escuela de Medicina de Harvard
Moderador, GHDOnline.org


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Ben Wolfe (openmrs) Ben Wolfe (openmrs)
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Re: Is there a history of patient attributes kept in OpenMRS

Burke is right that it should be treated as a column.  However, person attributes are never deleted/changed.  They are voided and recreated like obs.  So if you wanted to see the history you could do a query against the person_attribute.  We don't expose this in the API or UI anywhere that I know of.

I don't remember how the design for the new general attributes turned out to know if going forward when more objects have attributes like this it will have the same hidden feature.

Ben

On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Burke Mamlin <[hidden email]> wrote:
OpenMRS Attributes (like person attributes) are designed to allow implementations to extend tables to meet their needs – i.e., to effectively add an a column to the person table.  Based on this design, an attribute should behave as like any other column on the table (gender, birthdate, etc.).  This means that a history of values or multiple values would not be supported for simple datatypes; rather, you would need a custom datatype.

If you want to keep longitudinal data (a history of values), then I would suggest using observations.  These don't have to be mutually exclusive – i.e., you can, for example, record civil status both as a person attribute and and an observation, where the current civil status is always available as a person attribute and, when you want to see the history, you can search observations.

Cheers,

-Burke


On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Joaquín Blaya <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,
I was wondering if there was a history kept of patient attributes changes. I looked at the page https://wiki.openmrs.org/display/docs/Best+Practices+for+Implementations and it mentions that some patient attributes such as civil status can change over time and an implementer could want to keep a record of that, but it doesn't confirm if a record is maintained or not. 

It mentions "Is it better to record civil status as a person attribute with concept answers"  is there anywhere that shows how to do this?  Darius mentioned that the tribe module allowed you to have a coded patient attribute, is that what is done?

Thanks,


Joaquín
___________________________________________________________________
Gerente de Desarrollo, eHealth Systems
Research Fellow, Escuela de Medicina de Harvard
Moderador, GHDOnline.org


[hidden email] from OpenMRS Implementers' mailing list


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Joaquín Blaya Joaquín Blaya
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Re: Is there a history of patient attributes kept in OpenMRS

In reply to this post by Burke Mamlin
Thanks Ben and Burke,
The solution you mentioned of having the value be both a person attribute and an observation sounds exactly like what I want to do.

My ideal implementation is that the user enters it as an observation, and the latest observation is seen as a patient attribute. My only question is how do I get a patient attribute to automatically show the latest obs for a specific concept?

Thanks,

Joaquín
___________________________________________________________________
Gerente de Desarrollo, eHealth Systems
Research Fellow, Escuela de Medicina de Harvard
Moderador, GHDOnline.org


On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Burke Mamlin <[hidden email]> wrote:
OpenMRS Attributes (like person attributes) are designed to allow implementations to extend tables to meet their needs – i.e., to effectively add an a column to the person table.  Based on this design, an attribute should behave as like any other column on the table (gender, birthdate, etc.).  This means that a history of values or multiple values would not be supported for simple datatypes; rather, you would need a custom datatype.

If you want to keep longitudinal data (a history of values), then I would suggest using observations.  These don't have to be mutually exclusive – i.e., you can, for example, record civil status both as a person attribute and and an observation, where the current civil status is always available as a person attribute and, when you want to see the history, you can search observations.

Cheers,

-Burke


On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Joaquín Blaya <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,
I was wondering if there was a history kept of patient attributes changes. I looked at the page https://wiki.openmrs.org/display/docs/Best+Practices+for+Implementations and it mentions that some patient attributes such as civil status can change over time and an implementer could want to keep a record of that, but it doesn't confirm if a record is maintained or not. 

It mentions "Is it better to record civil status as a person attribute with concept answers"  is there anywhere that shows how to do this?  Darius mentioned that the tribe module allowed you to have a coded patient attribute, is that what is done?

Thanks,


Joaquín
___________________________________________________________________
Gerente de Desarrollo, eHealth Systems
Research Fellow, Escuela de Medicina de Harvard
Moderador, GHDOnline.org


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Darius Jazayeri-3 Darius Jazayeri-3
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Re: Is there a history of patient attributes kept in OpenMRS

You'd have to write code (a module) to do that.

-Darius

On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Joaquín Blaya <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks Ben and Burke,
The solution you mentioned of having the value be both a person attribute and an observation sounds exactly like what I want to do.

My ideal implementation is that the user enters it as an observation, and the latest observation is seen as a patient attribute. My only question is how do I get a patient attribute to automatically show the latest obs for a specific concept?

Thanks,

Joaquín
___________________________________________________________________
Gerente de Desarrollo, eHealth Systems
Research Fellow, Escuela de Medicina de Harvard
Moderador, GHDOnline.org


On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Burke Mamlin <[hidden email]> wrote:
OpenMRS Attributes (like person attributes) are designed to allow implementations to extend tables to meet their needs – i.e., to effectively add an a column to the person table.  Based on this design, an attribute should behave as like any other column on the table (gender, birthdate, etc.).  This means that a history of values or multiple values would not be supported for simple datatypes; rather, you would need a custom datatype.

If you want to keep longitudinal data (a history of values), then I would suggest using observations.  These don't have to be mutually exclusive – i.e., you can, for example, record civil status both as a person attribute and and an observation, where the current civil status is always available as a person attribute and, when you want to see the history, you can search observations.

Cheers,

-Burke


On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Joaquín Blaya <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,
I was wondering if there was a history kept of patient attributes changes. I looked at the page https://wiki.openmrs.org/display/docs/Best+Practices+for+Implementations and it mentions that some patient attributes such as civil status can change over time and an implementer could want to keep a record of that, but it doesn't confirm if a record is maintained or not. 

It mentions "Is it better to record civil status as a person attribute with concept answers"  is there anywhere that shows how to do this?  Darius mentioned that the tribe module allowed you to have a coded patient attribute, is that what is done?

Thanks,


Joaquín
___________________________________________________________________
Gerente de Desarrollo, eHealth Systems
Research Fellow, Escuela de Medicina de Harvard
Moderador, GHDOnline.org


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Andrew Kanter Andrew Kanter
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Re: Is there a history of patient attributes kept in OpenMRS

In reply to this post by Joaquín Blaya
I think this is sort of what we were expecting we could do to expose current states/properties of a patient to external systems. Like active lists, if we were able to use OBS to define patient attributes which then are updated by encounters, calculations, or data transactions, then these attributes could be part of an ATOM stream for monitoring systems... Oh, a patient just became pregnant.... better send an alert to the CHW to be sure to visit her, etc...
 
--------------------
Andrew S. Kanter, MD MPH

Asst. Prof. of Clinical Biomedical Informatics and Clinical Epidemiology
Columbia University
Email: [hidden email]
Mobile: +1 (646) 469-2421
Office: +1 (212) 305-4842
Skype: akanter-ippnw
Yahoo: andy_kanter


From: Joaquín Blaya <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [OPENMRS-IMPLEMENTERS] Is there a history of patient attributes kept in OpenMRS

Thanks Ben and Burke,
The solution you mentioned of having the value be both a person attribute and an observation sounds exactly like what I want to do.

My ideal implementation is that the user enters it as an observation, and the latest observation is seen as a patient attribute. My only question is how do I get a patient attribute to automatically show the latest obs for a specific concept?

Thanks,

Joaquín
___________________________________________________________________
Gerente de Desarrollo, eHealth Systems
Research Fellow, Escuela de Medicina de Harvard
Moderador, GHDOnline.org


On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Burke Mamlin <[hidden email]> wrote:
OpenMRS Attributes (like person attributes) are designed to allow implementations to extend tables to meet their needs – i.e., to effectively add an a column to the person table.  Based on this design, an attribute should behave as like any other column on the table (gender, birthdate, etc.).  This means that a history of values or multiple values would not be supported for simple datatypes; rather, you would need a custom datatype.

If you want to keep longitudinal data (a history of values), then I would suggest using observations.  These don't have to be mutually exclusive – i.e., you can, for example, record civil status both as a person attribute and and an observation, where the current civil status is always available as a person attribute and, when you want to see the history, you can search observations.

Cheers,

-Burke


On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Joaquín Blaya <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,
I was wondering if there was a history kept of patient attributes changes. I looked at the page https://wiki.openmrs.org/display/docs/Best+Practices+for+Implementations and it mentions that some patient attributes such as civil status can change over time and an implementer could want to keep a record of that, but it doesn't confirm if a record is maintained or not. 

It mentions "Is it better to record civil status as a person attribute with concept answers"  is there anywhere that shows how to do this?  Darius mentioned that the tribe module allowed you to have a coded patient attribute, is that what is done?

Thanks,


Joaquín
___________________________________________________________________
Gerente de Desarrollo, eHealth Systems
Research Fellow, Escuela de Medicina de Harvard
Moderador, GHDOnline.org


[hidden email] from OpenMRS Implementers' mailing list


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Joaquín Blaya Joaquín Blaya
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Re: Is there a history of patient attributes kept in OpenMRS

@Darius, my guess is that we should try and create this module generic. I've put the requirements I came up with below.  Feel free to suggest others and I'll put them on a wiki page.  Has anything like this been coded or anything I can use for our programmer to do this?

@Andy, if you have any further suggestions for what 

I've put the requirements and mockup at https://wiki.openmrs.org/display/projects/Module+to+allow+attribute+value+to+be+latest+obs+of+a+specified+concept
and I'm attaching a screenshot
Abstract

This is a module that will allow you to have an attribute value be the latest observation for a concept.

Requirements

  1. Allow you to specify the attribute you want and connect it with any concept in the dictionary
  2. Allow for any number of attribute/concept pairs
  3. Should always display the last value entered for the concept
  4. It should update via a task that is set in the administration panel??? (Is this the best way?)
  5. Should it have any global properties?



Joaquín
___________________________________________________________________
Gerente de Desarrollo, eHealth Systems
Research Fellow, Escuela de Medicina de Harvard
Moderador, GHDOnline.org


On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Andrew Kanter <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think this is sort of what we were expecting we could do to expose current states/properties of a patient to external systems. Like active lists, if we were able to use OBS to define patient attributes which then are updated by encounters, calculations, or data transactions, then these attributes could be part of an ATOM stream for monitoring systems... Oh, a patient just became pregnant.... better send an alert to the CHW to be sure to visit her, etc...
 
--------------------
Andrew S. Kanter, MD MPH

Asst. Prof. of Clinical Biomedical Informatics and Clinical Epidemiology
Columbia University
Email: [hidden email]
Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B1%20%28646%29%20469-2421" value="+16464692421" target="_blank">+1 (646) 469-2421
Office: <a href="tel:%2B1%20%28212%29%20305-4842" value="+12123054842" target="_blank">+1 (212) 305-4842
Skype: akanter-ippnw
Yahoo: andy_kanter


From: Joaquín Blaya <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [OPENMRS-IMPLEMENTERS] Is there a history of patient attributes kept in OpenMRS

Thanks Ben and Burke,
The solution you mentioned of having the value be both a person attribute and an observation sounds exactly like what I want to do.

My ideal implementation is that the user enters it as an observation, and the latest observation is seen as a patient attribute. My only question is how do I get a patient attribute to automatically show the latest obs for a specific concept?

Thanks,

Joaquín
___________________________________________________________________
Gerente de Desarrollo, eHealth Systems
Research Fellow, Escuela de Medicina de Harvard
Moderador, GHDOnline.org


On Sun, May 13, 2012 at 12:37 PM, Burke Mamlin <[hidden email]> wrote:
OpenMRS Attributes (like person attributes) are designed to allow implementations to extend tables to meet their needs – i.e., to effectively add an a column to the person table.  Based on this design, an attribute should behave as like any other column on the table (gender, birthdate, etc.).  This means that a history of values or multiple values would not be supported for simple datatypes; rather, you would need a custom datatype.

If you want to keep longitudinal data (a history of values), then I would suggest using observations.  These don't have to be mutually exclusive – i.e., you can, for example, record civil status both as a person attribute and and an observation, where the current civil status is always available as a person attribute and, when you want to see the history, you can search observations.

Cheers,

-Burke


On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Joaquín Blaya <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,
I was wondering if there was a history kept of patient attributes changes. I looked at the page https://wiki.openmrs.org/display/docs/Best+Practices+for+Implementations and it mentions that some patient attributes such as civil status can change over time and an implementer could want to keep a record of that, but it doesn't confirm if a record is maintained or not. 

It mentions "Is it better to record civil status as a person attribute with concept answers"  is there anywhere that shows how to do this?  Darius mentioned that the tribe module allowed you to have a coded patient attribute, is that what is done?

Thanks,


Joaquín
___________________________________________________________________
Gerente de Desarrollo, eHealth Systems
Research Fellow, Escuela de Medicina de Harvard
Moderador, GHDOnline.org


[hidden email] from OpenMRS Implementers' mailing list


[hidden email] from OpenMRS Implementers' mailing list



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