Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

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James Arbaugh James Arbaugh
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Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

Greetings all!

 

With the introduction of (Multiple) Providers in OpenMRS 1.9, I’m still trying to grasp how it works.  Specifically, how do the Encounter Roles relate to the Providers.  It seems the Role would be a Provider Attribute.  It seems Manage Encounter Roles would be called Manage Provider Roles, and be under the Provider section so you could identify which roles a given provider can play.

 

When I go to Manage Encounters, Add Encounter, and click Add Provider, I am required to choose a Role, and I can then enter the Provider Name.  So, I’ve created an Encounter Role called Surgeon, and selected it, but it will allow me to choose a Provider Name that is not a Surgeon.  There is no correlation between the role and the provider.

 

It would be more convenient if you didn’t have to click “Add Provider” for the first provider since it’s a required field.  “At least one provider is required.”  It would also be convenient if a default role could be automatically selected.

 

Thanks in advance for helping me make sense of these things.

 

Thanks,

James


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Mark Goodrich-2 Mark Goodrich-2
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Re: Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

James—

 

Burke can explain this more detail, but, if I understand correctly, there is meant to a difference between an encounter role and a (as yet undefined) provider role.  I think Burke’s example is that a provider could have a provider role of “Surgeon”, but they might have an encounter role of “Lead Surgeon” on one encounter and “Assistant Surgeon” on another. 

 

I’m not quite sure how this will work in practice… we are currently working on a Provider Management module which adds the idea of a provider role, which was more important for us.  I could see in the future a provider role having a many-to-many mapping to encounter role, indicating what encounter roles a certain provider role can serve as.

 

But, yes, right now I don’t believe there is much of a correlation between encounter role and provider, which was confusing to me.

 

You can, however, in Html Form Entry, specify an encounter role via an encounterRole attribute on the encounterProviderAndRole tag to create a widget to select a provider for a specific role.

 

Mark

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James Arbaugh
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 4:56 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [OPENMRS-IMPLEMENTERS] Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

 

Greetings all!

 

With the introduction of (Multiple) Providers in OpenMRS 1.9, I’m still trying to grasp how it works.  Specifically, how do the Encounter Roles relate to the Providers.  It seems the Role would be a Provider Attribute.  It seems Manage Encounter Roles would be called Manage Provider Roles, and be under the Provider section so you could identify which roles a given provider can play.

 

When I go to Manage Encounters, Add Encounter, and click Add Provider, I am required to choose a Role, and I can then enter the Provider Name.  So, I’ve created an Encounter Role called Surgeon, and selected it, but it will allow me to choose a Provider Name that is not a Surgeon.  There is no correlation between the role and the provider.

 

It would be more convenient if you didn’t have to click “Add Provider” for the first provider since it’s a required field.  “At least one provider is required.”  It would also be convenient if a default role could be automatically selected.

 

Thanks in advance for helping me make sense of these things.

 

Thanks,

James


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Burke Mamlin Burke Mamlin
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Re: Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

Mark is spot on.  The purpose of encounter role was to define the provider's role within the encounter  – e.g., Lead Surgeon, Primary Physician, Consulting Physician, Backup Nurse, etc.  Our model for it included the notion of defining which roles are needed by encounter type, but this along with the mapping of encounter roles to provider role(s) was deferred for the sake of not over-modeling up front.

The first pass was to allow for OpenMRS to accept multiple providers per encounter.  The constraints can be provided by widgets, modules, and/or external applications for now and, based on need/priority, we can include these constraints into core.

FWIW, on today's design call, in preparation for the upcoming sprint on roles & privileges, we discussed implementing organizational roles, which could replace a provider attribute as a means to defining the official role (job title) of various providers (Surgeon, Oncologist, Gastroenterologist, etc.).

-Burke

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Mark Goodrich <[hidden email]> wrote:

James—

 

Burke can explain this more detail, but, if I understand correctly, there is meant to a difference between an encounter role and a (as yet undefined) provider role.  I think Burke’s example is that a provider could have a provider role of “Surgeon”, but they might have an encounter role of “Lead Surgeon” on one encounter and “Assistant Surgeon” on another. 

 

I’m not quite sure how this will work in practice… we are currently working on a Provider Management module which adds the idea of a provider role, which was more important for us.  I could see in the future a provider role having a many-to-many mapping to encounter role, indicating what encounter roles a certain provider role can serve as.

 

But, yes, right now I don’t believe there is much of a correlation between encounter role and provider, which was confusing to me.

 

You can, however, in Html Form Entry, specify an encounter role via an encounterRole attribute on the encounterProviderAndRole tag to create a widget to select a provider for a specific role.

 

Mark

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James Arbaugh
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 4:56 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [OPENMRS-IMPLEMENTERS] Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

 

Greetings all!

 

With the introduction of (Multiple) Providers in OpenMRS 1.9, I’m still trying to grasp how it works.  Specifically, how do the Encounter Roles relate to the Providers.  It seems the Role would be a Provider Attribute.  It seems Manage Encounter Roles would be called Manage Provider Roles, and be under the Provider section so you could identify which roles a given provider can play.

 

When I go to Manage Encounters, Add Encounter, and click Add Provider, I am required to choose a Role, and I can then enter the Provider Name.  So, I’ve created an Encounter Role called Surgeon, and selected it, but it will allow me to choose a Provider Name that is not a Surgeon.  There is no correlation between the role and the provider.

 

It would be more convenient if you didn’t have to click “Add Provider” for the first provider since it’s a required field.  “At least one provider is required.”  It would also be convenient if a default role could be automatically selected.

 

Thanks in advance for helping me make sense of these things.

 

Thanks,

James



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James Arbaugh James Arbaugh
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Re: Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

Thank you Burke and Mark!  I’m encouraged to understand that this is a work-in-progress.

 

I played with the <encounterProviderAndRole encounterRole="1" > tag in the HTML Form Entry module.  It seems to work as described.  The current shortcoming I find is there isn’t a way to limit the list of providers, that are shown.  So, for example on my surgery form, I include one of these tags for my encounter role of Surgeon, and another one for the encounter role of Scrub Nurse.  But, the list to choose from for each of these includes all 183 providers in my system.  So, I could choose a Provider as a Surgeon who isn’t really a surgeon.  There needs to be a way to limit the list of Providers shown to minimize data entry errors.  Like we used to do it… <encounterProvider role="Provider"/> or <encounterProvider persons="username1,username2"/>.  I assume this functionality is a coming attraction for <encounterProviderAndRole/> once the provider roles are implemented!

 

Thanks,

James

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Burke Mamlin
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 10:01 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [OPENMRS-IMPLEMENTERS] Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

 

Mark is spot on.  The purpose of encounter role was to define the provider's role within the encounter  – e.g., Lead Surgeon, Primary Physician, Consulting Physician, Backup Nurse, etc.  Our model for it included the notion of defining which roles are needed by encounter type, but this along with the mapping of encounter roles to provider role(s) was deferred for the sake of not over-modeling up front.

 

The first pass was to allow for OpenMRS to accept multiple providers per encounter.  The constraints can be provided by widgets, modules, and/or external applications for now and, based on need/priority, we can include these constraints into core.

 

FWIW, on today's design call, in preparation for the upcoming sprint on roles & privileges, we discussed implementing organizational roles, which could replace a provider attribute as a means to defining the official role (job title) of various providers (Surgeon, Oncologist, Gastroenterologist, etc.).

 

-Burke

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Mark Goodrich <[hidden email]> wrote:

James—

 

Burke can explain this more detail, but, if I understand correctly, there is meant to a difference between an encounter role and a (as yet undefined) provider role.  I think Burke’s example is that a provider could have a provider role of “Surgeon”, but they might have an encounter role of “Lead Surgeon” on one encounter and “Assistant Surgeon” on another. 

 

I’m not quite sure how this will work in practice… we are currently working on a Provider Management module which adds the idea of a provider role, which was more important for us.  I could see in the future a provider role having a many-to-many mapping to encounter role, indicating what encounter roles a certain provider role can serve as.

 

But, yes, right now I don’t believe there is much of a correlation between encounter role and provider, which was confusing to me.

 

You can, however, in Html Form Entry, specify an encounter role via an encounterRole attribute on the encounterProviderAndRole tag to create a widget to select a provider for a specific role.

 

Mark

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James Arbaugh
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 4:56 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [OPENMRS-IMPLEMENTERS] Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

 

Greetings all!

 

With the introduction of (Multiple) Providers in OpenMRS 1.9, I’m still trying to grasp how it works.  Specifically, how do the Encounter Roles relate to the Providers.  It seems the Role would be a Provider Attribute.  It seems Manage Encounter Roles would be called Manage Provider Roles, and be under the Provider section so you could identify which roles a given provider can play.

 

When I go to Manage Encounters, Add Encounter, and click Add Provider, I am required to choose a Role, and I can then enter the Provider Name.  So, I’ve created an Encounter Role called Surgeon, and selected it, but it will allow me to choose a Provider Name that is not a Surgeon.  There is no correlation between the role and the provider.

 

It would be more convenient if you didn’t have to click “Add Provider” for the first provider since it’s a required field.  “At least one provider is required.”  It would also be convenient if a default role could be automatically selected.

 

Thanks in advance for helping me make sense of these things.

 

Thanks,

James

 


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Darius Jazayeri-3 Darius Jazayeri-3
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Re: Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

Hi James,

Correct, we expect to improve the providerAndRole tag in HTML Form Entry.

One thing we could do today is allow you to specify a provider attribute type and value, and only search for providers with that specific value.

E.g. you could create a Provider Attribute Type called "Role", and then do something like<encounterProviderAndRole encounterRole="1" providerAttributes="Role=Surgeon" />

@Mark, is there an approach like this that would be consistent with the work you're doing on a Provider Management module?

-Darius

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 8:34 AM, James Arbaugh <[hidden email]> wrote:

Thank you Burke and Mark!  I’m encouraged to understand that this is a work-in-progress.

 

I played with the <encounterProviderAndRole encounterRole="1" > tag in the HTML Form Entry module.  It seems to work as described.  The current shortcoming I find is there isn’t a way to limit the list of providers, that are shown.  So, for example on my surgery form, I include one of these tags for my encounter role of Surgeon, and another one for the encounter role of Scrub Nurse.  But, the list to choose from for each of these includes all 183 providers in my system.  So, I could choose a Provider as a Surgeon who isn’t really a surgeon.  There needs to be a way to limit the list of Providers shown to minimize data entry errors.  Like we used to do it… <encounterProvider role="Provider"/> or <encounterProvider persons="username1,username2"/>.  I assume this functionality is a coming attraction for <encounterProviderAndRole/> once the provider roles are implemented!

 

Thanks,

James

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Burke Mamlin
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 10:01 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [OPENMRS-IMPLEMENTERS] Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

 

Mark is spot on.  The purpose of encounter role was to define the provider's role within the encounter  – e.g., Lead Surgeon, Primary Physician, Consulting Physician, Backup Nurse, etc.  Our model for it included the notion of defining which roles are needed by encounter type, but this along with the mapping of encounter roles to provider role(s) was deferred for the sake of not over-modeling up front.

 

The first pass was to allow for OpenMRS to accept multiple providers per encounter.  The constraints can be provided by widgets, modules, and/or external applications for now and, based on need/priority, we can include these constraints into core.

 

FWIW, on today's design call, in preparation for the upcoming sprint on roles & privileges, we discussed implementing organizational roles, which could replace a provider attribute as a means to defining the official role (job title) of various providers (Surgeon, Oncologist, Gastroenterologist, etc.).

 

-Burke

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Mark Goodrich <[hidden email]> wrote:

James—

 

Burke can explain this more detail, but, if I understand correctly, there is meant to a difference between an encounter role and a (as yet undefined) provider role.  I think Burke’s example is that a provider could have a provider role of “Surgeon”, but they might have an encounter role of “Lead Surgeon” on one encounter and “Assistant Surgeon” on another. 

 

I’m not quite sure how this will work in practice… we are currently working on a Provider Management module which adds the idea of a provider role, which was more important for us.  I could see in the future a provider role having a many-to-many mapping to encounter role, indicating what encounter roles a certain provider role can serve as.

 

But, yes, right now I don’t believe there is much of a correlation between encounter role and provider, which was confusing to me.

 

You can, however, in Html Form Entry, specify an encounter role via an encounterRole attribute on the encounterProviderAndRole tag to create a widget to select a provider for a specific role.

 

Mark

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James Arbaugh
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 4:56 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [OPENMRS-IMPLEMENTERS] Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

 

Greetings all!

 

With the introduction of (Multiple) Providers in OpenMRS 1.9, I’m still trying to grasp how it works.  Specifically, how do the Encounter Roles relate to the Providers.  It seems the Role would be a Provider Attribute.  It seems Manage Encounter Roles would be called Manage Provider Roles, and be under the Provider section so you could identify which roles a given provider can play.

 

When I go to Manage Encounters, Add Encounter, and click Add Provider, I am required to choose a Role, and I can then enter the Provider Name.  So, I’ve created an Encounter Role called Surgeon, and selected it, but it will allow me to choose a Provider Name that is not a Surgeon.  There is no correlation between the role and the provider.

 

It would be more convenient if you didn’t have to click “Add Provider” for the first provider since it’s a required field.  “At least one provider is required.”  It would also be convenient if a default role could be automatically selected.

 

Thanks in advance for helping me make sense of these things.

 

Thanks,

James

 


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Mark Goodrich-2 Mark Goodrich-2
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Re: Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

In the Provider Management module we ended up adding providerRole directly on to the Provider object, so if that ends up getting rolled into core we should add providerRoles attribute.  If it doesn’t get into rolled into core perhaps we could add the attribute anyway and handle it via reflection.

 

Regardless, your providerAttributes tag sounds like a good idea.

 

The simplest feature would be to add a providers attribute which allows you to specify providers via id or uuid.

 

@James: can you enter a ticket for this?

 

Mark

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Darius Jazayeri
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 11:52 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [OPENMRS-IMPLEMENTERS] Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

 

Hi James,

 

Correct, we expect to improve the providerAndRole tag in HTML Form Entry.

 

One thing we could do today is allow you to specify a provider attribute type and value, and only search for providers with that specific value.

 

E.g. you could create a Provider Attribute Type called "Role", and then do something like<encounterProviderAndRole encounterRole="1" providerAttributes="Role=Surgeon" />

 

@Mark, is there an approach like this that would be consistent with the work you're doing on a Provider Management module?

 

-Darius

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 8:34 AM, James Arbaugh <[hidden email]> wrote:

Thank you Burke and Mark!  I’m encouraged to understand that this is a work-in-progress.

 

I played with the <encounterProviderAndRole encounterRole="1" > tag in the HTML Form Entry module.  It seems to work as described.  The current shortcoming I find is there isn’t a way to limit the list of providers, that are shown.  So, for example on my surgery form, I include one of these tags for my encounter role of Surgeon, and another one for the encounter role of Scrub Nurse.  But, the list to choose from for each of these includes all 183 providers in my system.  So, I could choose a Provider as a Surgeon who isn’t really a surgeon.  There needs to be a way to limit the list of Providers shown to minimize data entry errors.  Like we used to do it… <encounterProvider role="Provider"/> or <encounterProvider persons="username1,username2"/>.  I assume this functionality is a coming attraction for <encounterProviderAndRole/> once the provider roles are implemented!

 

Thanks,

James

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Burke Mamlin
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 10:01 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [OPENMRS-IMPLEMENTERS] Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

 

Mark is spot on.  The purpose of encounter role was to define the provider's role within the encounter  – e.g., Lead Surgeon, Primary Physician, Consulting Physician, Backup Nurse, etc.  Our model for it included the notion of defining which roles are needed by encounter type, but this along with the mapping of encounter roles to provider role(s) was deferred for the sake of not over-modeling up front.

 

The first pass was to allow for OpenMRS to accept multiple providers per encounter.  The constraints can be provided by widgets, modules, and/or external applications for now and, based on need/priority, we can include these constraints into core.

 

FWIW, on today's design call, in preparation for the upcoming sprint on roles & privileges, we discussed implementing organizational roles, which could replace a provider attribute as a means to defining the official role (job title) of various providers (Surgeon, Oncologist, Gastroenterologist, etc.).

 

-Burke

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Mark Goodrich <[hidden email]> wrote:

James—

 

Burke can explain this more detail, but, if I understand correctly, there is meant to a difference between an encounter role and a (as yet undefined) provider role.  I think Burke’s example is that a provider could have a provider role of “Surgeon”, but they might have an encounter role of “Lead Surgeon” on one encounter and “Assistant Surgeon” on another. 

 

I’m not quite sure how this will work in practice… we are currently working on a Provider Management module which adds the idea of a provider role, which was more important for us.  I could see in the future a provider role having a many-to-many mapping to encounter role, indicating what encounter roles a certain provider role can serve as.

 

But, yes, right now I don’t believe there is much of a correlation between encounter role and provider, which was confusing to me.

 

You can, however, in Html Form Entry, specify an encounter role via an encounterRole attribute on the encounterProviderAndRole tag to create a widget to select a provider for a specific role.

 

Mark

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James Arbaugh
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 4:56 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [OPENMRS-IMPLEMENTERS] Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

 

Greetings all!

 

With the introduction of (Multiple) Providers in OpenMRS 1.9, I’m still trying to grasp how it works.  Specifically, how do the Encounter Roles relate to the Providers.  It seems the Role would be a Provider Attribute.  It seems Manage Encounter Roles would be called Manage Provider Roles, and be under the Provider section so you could identify which roles a given provider can play.

 

When I go to Manage Encounters, Add Encounter, and click Add Provider, I am required to choose a Role, and I can then enter the Provider Name.  So, I’ve created an Encounter Role called Surgeon, and selected it, but it will allow me to choose a Provider Name that is not a Surgeon.  There is no correlation between the role and the provider.

 

It would be more convenient if you didn’t have to click “Add Provider” for the first provider since it’s a required field.  “At least one provider is required.”  It would also be convenient if a default role could be automatically selected.

 

Thanks in advance for helping me make sense of these things.

 

Thanks,

James

 


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Michael Seaton Michael Seaton
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Re: Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

Another possible solution here is to also support the same attributes that are supported in the encounterProvider tag - eg. allow specifying users with particular roles or comma-separated lists of persons.  This would be nice for backwards compatibility, and although not strictly "correct", would still work - eg. it would return all Providers who are persons with associated user accounts that have certain roles or certain usernames...

Mike

On 05/10/2012 01:39 PM, Mark Goodrich wrote:

In the Provider Management module we ended up adding providerRole directly on to the Provider object, so if that ends up getting rolled into core we should add providerRoles attribute.  If it doesn’t get into rolled into core perhaps we could add the attribute anyway and handle it via reflection.

 

Regardless, your providerAttributes tag sounds like a good idea.

 

The simplest feature would be to add a providers attribute which allows you to specify providers via id or uuid.

 

@James: can you enter a ticket for this?

 

Mark

 

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Darius Jazayeri
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 11:52 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [OPENMRS-IMPLEMENTERS] Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

 

Hi James,

 

Correct, we expect to improve the providerAndRole tag in HTML Form Entry.

 

One thing we could do today is allow you to specify a provider attribute type and value, and only search for providers with that specific value.

 

E.g. you could create a Provider Attribute Type called "Role", and then do something like<encounterProviderAndRole encounterRole="1" providerAttributes="Role=Surgeon" />

 

@Mark, is there an approach like this that would be consistent with the work you're doing on a Provider Management module?

 

-Darius

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 8:34 AM, James Arbaugh <[hidden email]> wrote:

Thank you Burke and Mark!  I’m encouraged to understand that this is a work-in-progress.

 

I played with the <encounterProviderAndRole encounterRole="1" > tag in the HTML Form Entry module.  It seems to work as described.  The current shortcoming I find is there isn’t a way to limit the list of providers, that are shown.  So, for example on my surgery form, I include one of these tags for my encounter role of Surgeon, and another one for the encounter role of Scrub Nurse.  But, the list to choose from for each of these includes all 183 providers in my system.  So, I could choose a Provider as a Surgeon who isn’t really a surgeon.  There needs to be a way to limit the list of Providers shown to minimize data entry errors.  Like we used to do it… <encounterProvider role="Provider"/> or <encounterProvider persons="username1,username2"/>.  I assume this functionality is a coming attraction for <encounterProviderAndRole/> once the provider roles are implemented!

 

Thanks,

James

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Burke Mamlin
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 10:01 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [OPENMRS-IMPLEMENTERS] Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

 

Mark is spot on.  The purpose of encounter role was to define the provider's role within the encounter  – e.g., Lead Surgeon, Primary Physician, Consulting Physician, Backup Nurse, etc.  Our model for it included the notion of defining which roles are needed by encounter type, but this along with the mapping of encounter roles to provider role(s) was deferred for the sake of not over-modeling up front.

 

The first pass was to allow for OpenMRS to accept multiple providers per encounter.  The constraints can be provided by widgets, modules, and/or external applications for now and, based on need/priority, we can include these constraints into core.

 

FWIW, on today's design call, in preparation for the upcoming sprint on roles & privileges, we discussed implementing organizational roles, which could replace a provider attribute as a means to defining the official role (job title) of various providers (Surgeon, Oncologist, Gastroenterologist, etc.).

 

-Burke

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Mark Goodrich <[hidden email]> wrote:

James—

 

Burke can explain this more detail, but, if I understand correctly, there is meant to a difference between an encounter role and a (as yet undefined) provider role.  I think Burke’s example is that a provider could have a provider role of “Surgeon”, but they might have an encounter role of “Lead Surgeon” on one encounter and “Assistant Surgeon” on another. 

 

I’m not quite sure how this will work in practice… we are currently working on a Provider Management module which adds the idea of a provider role, which was more important for us.  I could see in the future a provider role having a many-to-many mapping to encounter role, indicating what encounter roles a certain provider role can serve as.

 

But, yes, right now I don’t believe there is much of a correlation between encounter role and provider, which was confusing to me.

 

You can, however, in Html Form Entry, specify an encounter role via an encounterRole attribute on the encounterProviderAndRole tag to create a widget to select a provider for a specific role.

 

Mark

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James Arbaugh
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 4:56 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [OPENMRS-IMPLEMENTERS] Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

 

Greetings all!

 

With the introduction of (Multiple) Providers in OpenMRS 1.9, I’m still trying to grasp how it works.  Specifically, how do the Encounter Roles relate to the Providers.  It seems the Role would be a Provider Attribute.  It seems Manage Encounter Roles would be called Manage Provider Roles, and be under the Provider section so you could identify which roles a given provider can play.

 

When I go to Manage Encounters, Add Encounter, and click Add Provider, I am required to choose a Role, and I can then enter the Provider Name.  So, I’ve created an Encounter Role called Surgeon, and selected it, but it will allow me to choose a Provider Name that is not a Surgeon.  There is no correlation between the role and the provider.

 

It would be more convenient if you didn’t have to click “Add Provider” for the first provider since it’s a required field.  “At least one provider is required.”  It would also be convenient if a default role could be automatically selected.

 

Thanks in advance for helping me make sense of these things.

 

Thanks,

James

 


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Re: Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

In reply to this post by Mark Goodrich-2

Thanks again everyone for your explanations and suggestions.  @Mark, I think the providers attribute would be a good option moving forward, which replicates the old way of doing things without having to wait for the future changes, nor being just a temporary fix that would get replaced eventually.  This will make the new tag useful.

 

I created the ticket…

https://tickets.openmrs.org/browse/HTML-346

 

Thanks,

James

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mark Goodrich
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 1:40 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [OPENMRS-IMPLEMENTERS] Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

 

In the Provider Management module we ended up adding providerRole directly on to the Provider object, so if that ends up getting rolled into core we should add providerRoles attribute.  If it doesn’t get into rolled into core perhaps we could add the attribute anyway and handle it via reflection.

 

Regardless, your providerAttributes tag sounds like a good idea.

 

The simplest feature would be to add a providers attribute which allows you to specify providers via id or uuid.

 

@James: can you enter a ticket for this?

 

Mark

 

From: [hidden email] [hidden email] On Behalf Of Darius Jazayeri
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 11:52 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [OPENMRS-IMPLEMENTERS] Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

 

Hi James,

 

Correct, we expect to improve the providerAndRole tag in HTML Form Entry.

 

One thing we could do today is allow you to specify a provider attribute type and value, and only search for providers with that specific value.

 

E.g. you could create a Provider Attribute Type called "Role", and then do something like<encounterProviderAndRole encounterRole="1" providerAttributes="Role=Surgeon" />

 

@Mark, is there an approach like this that would be consistent with the work you're doing on a Provider Management module?

 

-Darius

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 8:34 AM, James Arbaugh <[hidden email]> wrote:

Thank you Burke and Mark!  I’m encouraged to understand that this is a work-in-progress.

 

I played with the <encounterProviderAndRole encounterRole="1" > tag in the HTML Form Entry module.  It seems to work as described.  The current shortcoming I find is there isn’t a way to limit the list of providers, that are shown.  So, for example on my surgery form, I include one of these tags for my encounter role of Surgeon, and another one for the encounter role of Scrub Nurse.  But, the list to choose from for each of these includes all 183 providers in my system.  So, I could choose a Provider as a Surgeon who isn’t really a surgeon.  There needs to be a way to limit the list of Providers shown to minimize data entry errors.  Like we used to do it… <encounterProvider role="Provider"/> or <encounterProvider persons="username1,username2"/>.  I assume this functionality is a coming attraction for <encounterProviderAndRole/> once the provider roles are implemented!

 

Thanks,

James

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Burke Mamlin
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 10:01 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [OPENMRS-IMPLEMENTERS] Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

 

Mark is spot on.  The purpose of encounter role was to define the provider's role within the encounter  – e.g., Lead Surgeon, Primary Physician, Consulting Physician, Backup Nurse, etc.  Our model for it included the notion of defining which roles are needed by encounter type, but this along with the mapping of encounter roles to provider role(s) was deferred for the sake of not over-modeling up front.

 

The first pass was to allow for OpenMRS to accept multiple providers per encounter.  The constraints can be provided by widgets, modules, and/or external applications for now and, based on need/priority, we can include these constraints into core.

 

FWIW, on today's design call, in preparation for the upcoming sprint on roles & privileges, we discussed implementing organizational roles, which could replace a provider attribute as a means to defining the official role (job title) of various providers (Surgeon, Oncologist, Gastroenterologist, etc.).

 

-Burke

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Mark Goodrich <[hidden email]> wrote:

James—

 

Burke can explain this more detail, but, if I understand correctly, there is meant to a difference between an encounter role and a (as yet undefined) provider role.  I think Burke’s example is that a provider could have a provider role of “Surgeon”, but they might have an encounter role of “Lead Surgeon” on one encounter and “Assistant Surgeon” on another. 

 

I’m not quite sure how this will work in practice… we are currently working on a Provider Management module which adds the idea of a provider role, which was more important for us.  I could see in the future a provider role having a many-to-many mapping to encounter role, indicating what encounter roles a certain provider role can serve as.

 

But, yes, right now I don’t believe there is much of a correlation between encounter role and provider, which was confusing to me.

 

You can, however, in Html Form Entry, specify an encounter role via an encounterRole attribute on the encounterProviderAndRole tag to create a widget to select a provider for a specific role.

 

Mark

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James Arbaugh
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 4:56 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [OPENMRS-IMPLEMENTERS] Providers/Encounter Roles in OpenMRS 1.9

 

Greetings all!

 

With the introduction of (Multiple) Providers in OpenMRS 1.9, I’m still trying to grasp how it works.  Specifically, how do the Encounter Roles relate to the Providers.  It seems the Role would be a Provider Attribute.  It seems Manage Encounter Roles would be called Manage Provider Roles, and be under the Provider section so you could identify which roles a given provider can play.

 

When I go to Manage Encounters, Add Encounter, and click Add Provider, I am required to choose a Role, and I can then enter the Provider Name.  So, I’ve created an Encounter Role called Surgeon, and selected it, but it will allow me to choose a Provider Name that is not a Surgeon.  There is no correlation between the role and the provider.

 

It would be more convenient if you didn’t have to click “Add Provider” for the first provider since it’s a required field.  “At least one provider is required.”  It would also be convenient if a default role could be automatically selected.

 

Thanks in advance for helping me make sense of these things.

 

Thanks,

James

 


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